CONNECT

Beacon Citizen Network (BCN): a place for neighbors to get the word out, be heard and stay informed in all matters concerning Beacon, NY.

SPONSORS

Photobucket

just found this nifty link about how coal fired power plants in NY effect children and raise childhood asthma rates. beacon seems to be really poorly situated in terms of coal power plants.

http://www.catf.us/publications/factsheets/Children_at_Risk-New_Yor...

any ideas of what we can do about Danskammer in Newburgh?

here is a scary interactive map from the NY Times listing out violations of power plants:
http://projects.nytimes.com/toxic-waters/polluters/power-plants

Danskammer has 77 which are an attractive mix of putting things in the air and in the water.

this has been bothering me since i moved up here. there must be some kind of pressure that can be put to bear.

Tags: asthma, coal, danskammer, energy, power

Views: 129

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

We can all turn off our lights, appliances, computers, furnaces.

I know Riverkeeper has been after them, and a little research shows they import some of the coal from Columbia, which apparently has atrocious mining practices. But what else can be done, without losing power?
I like my power.
embrace nuclear

i'm not being sarcastic: nuclear is extremely clean (and extremely safe: people's china syndrome fears are based on 1960s era technology). of course, indian point is ancient, and should be opposed, as its age puts us in risk. but indian point should be rebuilt with new technology, we shouldn't do completely away with nuclear

with gas prices going up and up and coal being the only other cost-effective choice, its either nuclear or coal in our future

coal CAN be scrubbed of its toxic byproducts, but the bush years hamstrung all of the clean air/water legislation

we simply need new clean coal legislation, because any way you look at it, with gas prices and people's (unfounded) fear of nuclear, there is a lot of coal use in our future
Actually, coal CANNOT be scrubbed of its toxic byproducts, now or any time in the near future.
Nuclear energy has many problems and is massively massively expensive to build and maintain and dispose of, among other things.

Some people are suggesting smaller localized energy grids, rather than the massive centralized system we currently use. Solar and wind power operated by local municipalities rather than some giant energy corporation.

As peak oil approaches and global warming descends, this kind of thing needs to start happening. How about a few windmills up on Mt. Beacon next to the cell towers? There is still a small hydro-electric plant on Fishkill Creek at Groveville.
yes, i love tidal power, wind power, solar power, wave power, geothermal, renewables, etc.

but they are boutique sources: they don't meet the majority of our demand

so you have to make peace with coal and nuclear, they will be with us for awhile, until we finally someday figure out fusion power, and we put all this nonsense behind us. i don't LIKE coal and nuclear, i simply understand and admit they won't go away easily or quickly

in the meantime, you CAN scrub the emissions coal sends to our water and air. and study up on the latest advances in nuclear power, like germany's pebble bed reactors: you can walk away from these things or fly a plane into them: nothing happens, nothing melts down, nothing toxic is released

coal and nuclear are awful. but until we figure out some way to get a majority of our power from other sources, we're stuck with them. so since we're stuck with them, lets scrub coal's emissions and use the latest safest tech in nuclear

Mark Roland said:
Actually, coal CANNOT be scrubbed of its toxic byproducts, now or any time in the near future.
Nuclear energy has many problems and is massively massively expensive to build and maintain and dispose of, among other things.

Some people are suggesting smaller localized energy grids, rather than the massive centralized system we currently use. Solar and wind power operated by local municipalities rather than some giant energy corporation.

As peak oil approaches and global warming descends, this kind of thing needs to start happening. How about a few windmills up on Mt. Beacon next to the cell towers? There is still a small hydro-electric plant on Fishkill Creek at Groveville.
Yes, to what Ben said, except you might not like wind or tidal power if they were located right here. Which is what would have to happen to benefit from them. How about all our shore line used for tidal power? I don't think so. How about Mount Beacon lined with windmills? They are loud, ugly and flash spots of light up to 5 miles away. Our mountain and area is actually perfect for it, since we have 15 mph winds often enough to benefit.

Having them far away creates the problem of how to get that power from windmills to us. Note the protests on the other side of the river to putting in new power lines.
I think my point was that decentralizing our power stations might be a smarter way to go, not building mega enormous plants, which need to account for redundancy since everything is highly centralized, and provide profits for a small group of wealthy owners.
Solar and wind are definitely no longer boutique. Getting any kind of nuclear plant on line is ridiculously expensive.

But aside from all that, simple efficiency measures, and even more important, using much less energy, can make the biggest difference. We use far more energy per person here in the U.S. than any European countries. But we have poisoned ourselves with advertising and corporate culture, and now these entities are so strong, and so entrenched, it is almost impossible to affect changes in the status quo, which is pointing us headlong into disaster.

This is why its so important not to look at a potential TOD first and foremost in terms of "marketing" and "cost benefit analysis" and "demographics" which are all code words for How Much Can We Make On This--whether it be the MTA, the developer, or the City of Beacon.

If, knowing what we now know, we don't start planning for a different future, when do we start? The next time the waterfront comes up for redevelopment? When 9D looks like route 9 in Wappingers? After all the ice in the arctic is gone? If we took the money we're pouring into "nation building" elsewhere and started taking care of nation building right here, in a meaningful way, we'd be in a lot better shape overall.
"Birdy" wrote: "Yes, to what Ben said, except you might not like wind or tidal power if they were located right here. Which is what would have to happen to benefit from them. How about all our shore line used for tidal power? I don't think so. How about Mount Beacon lined with windmills? They are loud, ugly and flash spots of light up to 5 miles away. Our mountain and area is actually perfect for it, since we have 15 mph winds often enough to benefit."


Modern windmill technology has lessened the impact of noise, light, etc. We like to hide things from ourselves--who has seen their dinner meat being killed, or breathed the toxins created by so many of the products we import? By moving back to a more localized economy, we need to be more aware of the byproducts of what we make and use. I'd rather have a few beautifully designed windmills on the top of the mountain turning away and supplying me with energy than the byproducts of the Danskammer plant floating through the Hudson Valley air.
I think that we THINK the windmills will be/are ugly and eyesores, but I just noticed a lot of them on a flight over Austria: that they actually were beautiful and soothing (at least from my perspective), and since I wasn't expecting to see them, my reaction was sort of a surprise to me. I also just spent an afternoon at Storm King last Sunday, and maybe to draw a comparison of acclaimed outdoor sculpture to energy devices is a stretch, but I think the eye and the sense of aesthetics could accommodate windmills. Especially when we consider the alternatives. Mark is right:

If, knowing what we now know, we don't start planning for a different future, when do we start? The next time the waterfront comes up for redevelopment? When 9D looks like route 9 in Wappingers? After all the ice in the arctic is gone? If we took the money we're pouring into "nation building" elsewhere and started taking care of nation building right here, in a meaningful way, we'd be in a lot better shape overall.
Mark Roland said:
If, knowing what we now know, we don't start planning for a different future, when do we start? The next time the waterfront comes up for redevelopment? When 9D looks like route 9 in Wappingers? After all the ice in the arctic is gone? If we took the money we're pouring into "nation building" elsewhere and started taking care of nation building right here, in a meaningful way, we'd be in a lot better shape overall.

this is why i like beacon

the problem is the automobile, which has allowed the growth of suburbs, thereby encouraging wasting lots of energy getting around and laying low vast swaths of land to very low density housing. before the car, every city in the country was high density downtown surrounded by wilderness, like beacon. now the entire country is strip malls and subdivisions, no wilderness, and decrepit, ignored downtowns. this is wasteful

beacon, by virtue of being smooshed between the mountain and the river, can't develop like las vegas or phoenix, can't sprawl out, and must retain high density development. the benefits are that we spend less energy on transportation, which, with energy becoming less cheap, means we spend less money. beacon's essential layout is smart and looking smarter every day

which is why i LIKE the TOD, as it is responsible in this regard. high density development near a rail line is the very definition of environmentally friendly development. its also why i think we need to revive the beacon line. light rail makes no economic sense whatsoever for a city the size of beacon... unless the line is just sitting there already. to heck with the MTA running it, just get concessions from them to maintain the line, add crossing signals, and for us to use it rent free as a condition of the TOD, and just get our own beacon trolley

can a trolley really be more expensive than a bus?

and then send that trolley up to fishkill, and use it for commuters as well, not just tourists, and the city will MAKE A PROFIT. yes, that's what i said, we will make a PROFIT off the beacon line. as long as we don't get the MTA running their expensive trains with their loud diesel: that will mean money will be lost, the MTA can never balance a budget, and there will be angry NIMBYs from the noise and exhaust. lets just buy our own green, quiet, efficient, modern little trolley and run it ourselves. can that really be more complicated than running a bus?

with high density development, and this sort of ultra-advanced transportation initiative of a trolley (for a city the size of beacon), this little city is poised to be THE model of responsible, low energy use development. the anti-phoenix, or anti-las vegas, where people sit in their 1 mpg hummers and choke on exhaust on gridlocked 7 lane freeways and gas prices continue to climb. oh, what an american dream, pffft

beacon is the model for the future of development (high density with lots of wild spaces) and transportation (rail dependency more than car dependency) for this entire country. i'm dead serious when i say state and feds should visit beacon and trumpet these facets of our little city and scold other municipalities the country over that they should emulate US

lets leverage our old infrastructure, like the nabisco for dia, the round house for real estate, and THE BEACON LINE FOR A TROLLEY, to make beacon an, um... "beacon" for responsible development in the usa ;-)

ps: the problem with tidal is silting: it slows river currents and they deposit growing mounds of silt and it gums everything up. it also interferes with fish. and the problem with wind is noise and killing birds in migration. but that doesn't mean we can't use SOME sort of tidal or wind power, nor does it mean we can't put solar on all of our roofs even though we don't live in arizona. but lets just be realistic: no energy source comes without negatives as well as positives. i'm not saying love nuclear and love coal and shut up. i'm saying lets use coal, nuclear, wind, solar, and tidal, and recognize the negatives of each, and try to balance the positives and negatives. this sort of prudent gradual thinking about our energy will allow us to diversify our energy sources from the monotony of coal and nuclear and the obvious vile downsides of those, and then in the future, maybe we'll be in a position to do away with coal and nuclear entirely (although that's hard to imagine today)
1. danskammer is not very clean. they do not use the latest technology to "scrub" the emissions. for what scrubbing is worth (they take it out of the air and pollute the water instead).

2. i heard on "Living on Earth" that communities living near coal fired power plants have a 2000 (!!!) times higher incidence of cancer.

3. central hudson can source power from other sources including wind.

i dont know where the power from danskammer goes on the grid but i dont imagine that beacon is the main and only user therefore turning off our appliances and furnaces won't really get us anywhere.

i enjoy the greater power debate going on here but i think there is something more tactical and immediate that could occur. ideas welcome.
Let me tell you, flying over them in an airplane is much different than living near them. Unless this years is more modern than the 2 year old ones, they can't be placed near people. They still make noise and an incredibly ear annoying sound, they still flash light up to 5 miles away when the sun hits them at a certain angle. They are usually 2, yes TWO football fields HIGH.

If people are complaining about 5 story buildings, what makes you think 10 to 14 story fans are nicer?

Farms that have them are now having fertility problems with the animals, they believe it is from the noise.

Refitting what we have is better.

Reply to Discussion

RSS

© 2020   Created by Kelly Kingman.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service